Pops and Son Conversations
Join US Air Force Veteran, Presidential Achievement Award Recipient, author, philanthropist, and social media influencer, Rob Malloy, and his son, author and model, Javan Anderson, as they navigate the generation gap with humor and heart.
On this podcast, Rob and Javan tackle a wide range of topics – from life lessons and fatherhood to current events and pop culture – offering a unique blend of old-school wisdom and new-school perspectives. Expect lively debates, unexpected insights, and plenty of laughs along the way.
Tune in to Pops and Son Conversations and discover:
- Candid conversations: Rob and Javan share their honest thoughts and experiences, providing a refreshing take on intergenerational relationships.
- Diverse perspectives: Hear how Rob's traditional values intersect with Javan's modern outlook, creating dynamic and engaging discussions.
- Humor and heart: Enjoy a show that's both entertaining and thought-provoking, leaving you with a smile and something to ponder.
Subscribe now and join the conversation!
Pops and Son Conversations
What They Didn't Teach Us About June 19, 1865
Freedom delayed is not freedom denied. This powerful truth lies at the heart of Juneteenth, a holiday that only recently gained federal recognition but carries centuries of profound significance for Black Americans and our shared national story.
On this special solo episode, I dive deep into the complex history of Juneteenth, tracing its origins to that momentous day in 1865 when Union General Gordon Granger arrived in Galveston, Texas with General Order Number Three—finally bringing freedom to enslaved people a full two-and-a-half years after the Emancipation Proclamation. This isn't just Black history hidden in the shadows; it's American history that deserves to be fully understood and celebrated by all.
I share the remarkable story of Miss Opal Lee, the "Grandmother of Juneteenth," who at age 89 began walking 2.5 miles in cities across America to symbolize the 2.5-year delay in freedom. Her persistence helped transform what was once a regional Texas celebration into our newest federal holiday. Yet this recognition comes with complicated realities—from corporate performance activism that fades faster than their marketing campaigns to troubling legislative efforts in 44 states attempting to restrict how racism is taught in schools.
Despite these challenges, I remain optimistic about the enduring power of Juneteenth. We're witnessing an incredible renaissance of Black entrepreneurship, with Black women leading as America's fastest-growing group of entrepreneurs. Our stories are being told with unprecedented richness across literature, film, and television. These triumphs embody the true spirit of Juneteenth—the understanding that delay doesn't mean defeat, and that freedom, once rooted, continues to blossom in beautiful and unexpected ways.
Whether you're gathering with family, supporting Black-owned businesses, or simply learning more about this vital piece of American history, I invite you to celebrate Juneteenth with genuine appreciation for how far we've come and clear-eyed determination about the journey still ahead. Because this holiday belongs to all of us who believe in the ongoing work of freedom.
Keeping Veterans Fit, Inc.
Keepingveteransfit.org
Please follow Pops and Son Conversations on the website, popsandsonconversations.com, and social media @popsandsonconversations
welcome back to another episode of pops and son conversations. Today is just me, son, aka check three times. I gave pops a day off. You know I'm flying this one solo, but I still have a great show lined up for you guys.
Speaker 1:On this episode, I want to talk about a holiday that recently passed, right, and I actually want to give you a little bit of history and some of my personal opinions as well. So, if you haven't already guessed, this holiday I'm talking about is Juneteenth, right? So y'all remember back in 2021, when all of a sudden, it seemed like Juneteenth became a federal holiday. So, for a lot of us, I mean, I guess I could only speak for myself, right, but I'm still speaking for a lot of us. But you know, it was our first time that we really heard that name, like on a national scale. I feel like it was one of those collective aha moments. You know, I personally started Googling, you know, doing my little research and trying to figure out, like you know, what's Juneteenth? Like you heard about it, but it was like wow, so it's a holiday now, it. But it was like wow, so it's a holiday now. So just that little bit of American history that was kind of lost on. A lot of people got brought to the forefront. That wasn't necessarily something that was taught in schools. I remember learning about Independence Day, 4th of July, but I didn't get the whole scope. So I, you know, I had to do a little research and I think a lot of people, you know, really woke up when they got broadcast on a national scale like that. And I remember that first year, that first year, like there was so much energy around it. You know, you saw the Juneteenth colors everywhere the red, black and green the big corporations were putting out. You know all these statements of solidarity and you know it felt good, like now that I think about it in hindsight, you know it was crazy. It was just a great moment in history, a great moment in time.
Speaker 1:But you know, now this year June 19th, 2025, I got to say, you know it feels a little quieter. You know I don't know if anybody has noticed, but you know I feel like the corporate ads have mostly vanished. You know there was a big social media buzz. I feel like that's kind of died down as well and I don't know, it kind of seemed like, you know, maybe like the national spotlight has moved on now, us Black folks. You know we continue to celebrate it, of course, and many of us had already been doing that, but I'm just speaking kind of on the national level. So when you think about that it makes you wonder like what happened? Did we lose that momentum? You know, that crucial celebration, that inclusive celebration of freedom? Did we let that fade into the background? So today I actually want to get into a little bit of that. You know just the complex history of Juneteenth and why, why is so important in America today. But before we get into that, I do want to go back to the beginning, because some of y'all might be like me and didn't really know the full history of Juneteenth, how it came about, what it's all about. So you know, I want to talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1:So picture this it's June 19th 1865. A union general named Gordon Granger arrives in Galveston, texas, and he is carrying a message, general Order number three. And this order is about to change everything. It begins like this the people of Texas are informed that, in accordance with a proclamation from the executive of the United States, all slaves are free. But here's the kicker, and this will get get me this order, this general order.
Speaker 1:Number three it was happening more than two full years after Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation which is what I learned about in school of freedom. They didn't tell us that, you know. They didn't tell us that not everybody was free after this right. I guess we just kind of skipped over that one in history class, but that proclamation that was supposed to free everybody actually didn't. So for two and a half years in Texas, you know, people weren't free, they were still slaves. But on that day, june 19th, the freedom was delivered. It was delayed but it was not denied. So it also went on to state that an absolute equality of personal rights and rights of property between former masters and slaves. So you know that basically means that we free and we are equal right. That's what that means. But one of the key things about that was free.
Speaker 1:So if you can imagine, if you can imagine the reaction, right, just imagine that you, you know working or whatever, whatever they had you doing. You know we'll have to get too deep into it, but you get this news, you get this information. I mean those people had to, had to feel just an immense amount of emotion to know that. You know what they were doing. Yesterday and the days before they no longer had to do, they were truly free. You know it wasn't a rumor, it wasn't something that they, you know, had to dream about. You know it actually came to fruition. So apparently there was an immediate reaction. People was walking off the plantation, there were reports of people bursting into song, dancing and prayers, and so those first celebrations which started in 1866, were called Jubilee Day, and these were deeply personal. They were church center gatherings, family reunions, and for a lot of people it was a search for their family members who had been sold off and scattered across the country. They use those gatherings to share information and try to piece their families back together.
Speaker 1:So I have another really interesting fact about Juneteenth. This is about the story of Miss Opal Lee. She's known as the grandmother of Juneteenth, so as a child. On June 19th 1939, a white mob burned her family's home to the ground in Fort Worth, texas, because they just never wanted them in the neighborhood. You know, just pure hatred. They didn't want them there. So this woman dedicated her life to making sure Juneteenth was known not just in Texas but by the entire nation. So for years, at the age of 89, she began a campaign and she walked two and a half miles in cities across the country. The two and a half miles was to symbolize the two and a half years of delay, but it was her persistence that helped push Juneteenth over that finish line to become a federal holiday. So, I mean, her story is a testament to the fact that even this holiday wasn't handed to us. We had to fight for that too, you know. So this I say all that to say that the day is incredibly meaningful, with an incredible history of struggle and resilience, and for it to finally have become a federal holiday, it's just amazing.
Speaker 1:But I want to go back to talking about that corporate enthusiasm that we saw in the beginning and how it kind of started to feel hollow, a little performative, if I could say so. If you'll recall back 2020, during the George Floyd protests, that's when everybody kind of tried to cash in. Everybody wanted to show that they were on the right side of history. You know that they were standing with you know what was right, standing for justice, all these companies and corporations right. You saw the Black Lives Matters and the Fists and all that stuff everywhere. But now all of that is dried up. I mean, you don't see that and it's crazy when you think about it up. I mean, you don't see that and it's crazy when you think about it. It's kind of like a time capsule, a moment in time where just everywhere you saw the massive support and the outcry from these big businesses. But hey, man, as time goes on, you kind of understand. These people are playing a game, right, they're just playing a game and it's really all coming down to numbers for them.
Speaker 1:So I remember one moment where there was it was Walmart this is probably the most infamous example Walmart and their Juneteenth ice cream. The flavor was, uh, it was the red velvet cheesecake, right, and the in the uh, it was like a pan african colored uh uh carton and yeah, so that that was just wild. But I remember that and people were rightfully upset. The backlash was almost instant. You know.
Speaker 1:I remember people saying like how could you turn something you know the commemoration of a day of slavery and being free into a dessert, a novelty dessert at that, because you know it's just going to be something seasonal that you know is only going to come around during Juneteenth? So it was, it was just crazy, and it shows you once again just how out of touch a lot of these companies and corporations are when it comes to actual, the actual humanity behind some of these, these holidays and these statements that they make. I mean, that was just a clear, a clear cut example of cultural appropriation at its finest. You know, they took some sacred and just turn it into a commercial product for people to buy, and so they can make some money. So, of coursemart did pull that, um, and they apologized, but the damage was already done. You know, it left a stain, and some people might not remember, but, um, I remember that and to me it's like a simple, a symbol, um, of just how, like I said, just how, how, how they are out of touch. You know they could grab on to something, just just slap a price tag on it, but they completely missed the point. You know what I'm saying Like what would have been smart was to actually make some type of investments into underserved communities or whatever the case is something like that, but just creating a product that people could go and buy. Now, walmart, we are not rocking with that.
Speaker 1:It wasn't actually just them, though. A lot of people ran these Juneteenth sales, the same way that you'll see the sales for Fourth of July, independence Day. It's everywhere. You see the discounted prices. You got the red, white and blue all over the place in the grocery stores and stuff like that. Now is that going to be done for Juneteenth, is it? I don't know? You start to see the different disparities that come along with it. But I say all that to say this there's an irony that's really staggering Around the same time, everything is happening, the same companies that were so loud about this diversity and stuff and standing on the right side of history and being for the people and for the people and doing standing for justice, now they're quiet Right Now.
Speaker 1:We see them, you know, really afraid of the political backlash under Trump's administration, which we don't have to get too into. But y'all know what's been going on, right, you know there's political backlash. These companies don't want to be seen a certain way for us, associating with something that they may deem as some type of, you know, support or over support of certain communities. So it really makes you question if it was ever genuine to begin with, which I mean obviously not because they only do it for the money. I mean obviously not because they only do it for the money, but they take it a step further, and I, you know I hate that this is happening, but I have to talk about it because it's mostly happening in my, in my home state, florida. You know Florida is just gone bonkers with with these laws and DeSantis has has kind of turned it into something really ugly. So I got a few facts Since 2021, lawmakers in 44 states have tried to pass bills to limit how teachers talk about racism.
Speaker 1:18 of them actually passed them. So I don't know if y'all remember this, but they're banning what they call divisive concepts or critical race theory, which has become like basically like a catch all term for any time you're talking about systemic inequality or you're talking about racism, you know it just falls under that. So they don't want to talk about that in the schools at all. So there's even a law that anything that could make a student feel discomfort, guilt or anguish because of their race, it can't be talked about. So think about it. Because of their race, it can't be talked about. So think about it. How can any teacher, how can anybody teach anything about race or just about history period and not make somebody feel, I mean, america's history is uncomfortable, right? So in essence, they're just trying to erase everything from the history books, everything that would teach us about the struggles and what it took to make this country what it is today. Yeah, they don't want to talk about any of that stuff. No, jim Crow, no, slavery, no, none of that. And this is in Florida. So that's just one of the things that just you know.
Speaker 1:I think about it like that's now. Like where are we if we don't make a change now? Where are we in the next 10, 15 years? Like, how much is going to be erased? How much has already been erased? So there's also this Stop Woke Act, which woke is a term that they like to use, which basically just means that they're talking about things that are like kind of benefiting or you might say not benefiting certain races, certain underserved communities. Anytime that you talk about this stuff, they like to say that it's some type of woke agenda, right, and so this woke act is actually pulling AP African-American studies from schools because they're saying it has an ideological bias.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of stuff going on, right, there's a lot of pushback against the progress of black folks that we see going on, but I will say there is some positivity within the midst of it, like I'm not going to talk all negative the whole time. I know y'all probably listening like, oh man, he just he's just giving it to us raw. But you know, I wanted to start that way so I could get into some some good things and some good things that's going on. But it's also just something to be conscious about. You know something to be conscious about. While we celebrate Juneteenth, while we talk about, you know, the history of our people, we have to know what's going on in the present and how there are different forces actively working against us.
Speaker 1:So, like I said, there's, you know there's it's like a coordinated effort to whitewash it. That's the term whitewashing and it's crazy because I remember hearing that term growing up as well, Like in school, like they would talk about how the history books didn't show the full history and I didn't. I wasn't able to fully grasp the concept because if that's all you know, that's all you know. But now you know, I'm an older man and I'm able to go and do my own research and find out about these very important figures in history, like Miss Opalita I mentioned earlier and what she did and how you know it changes the course of history. The thing is that you don't learn. But if you don't know, you don't know, and once you know better, you do better.
Speaker 1:But it's interesting to note that this whitewashing of the history, you know it's a contradiction, because while we now have a federal holiday where we can celebrate, you know, black freedom separately from Independence Day, which you know how are we supposed to look at that? You know black folks weren't free, so what do we really make of that? How do we celebrate something like that? I'll get to that more a little bit later, because I have some thoughts on, you know, the 4th of July and those type of holidays. But just listen to that contradiction. Right, you know we got Juneteenth and it's Black freedom, but now we can't even allow our kids to learn about that in the schools. And some people might argue, hey, like they don't need to learn about that in school anyway. That needs to be something that they could learn at home. And I agree with that. I 100% agree with that as well.
Speaker 1:But I think that conversations like this need to be had so that we have some reminders that, hey, they're not going to teach us the right way, they're going to try to cover it up. Let's remember and continue to pass these good stories down. Let's continue to pass the good news down so that it is not erased. It can't be erased. You know what I mean. So yeah, the story of Juneteenth I want to say that. I want to say it's never been about the obstacles.
Speaker 1:I look at Juneteenth as more about the spirit, the spirit to overcome the obstacles that we had to face, for every attempt to push our history back, there's always a powerful surge of culture, creativity and community pushing forward, and we see it today. I don't want to dwell on, you know, the fight for too long. I want to talk about the flourishing and celebrate the joy and the undeniable progress that really truly defines the spirit of this holiday. So one of the most powerful transformations I see and I feel that we're experiencing collectively is this absolute equality, right, that general order. Number three it wasn't just about personal freedom, but also the right to work and to build and to own, most importantly to own and I think that legacy is alive and thriving today more than ever Right?
Speaker 1:So the last few years alone, you know, we've seen a boom in black entrepreneurship. As a matter of fact, there's there's data that says that the number of black owned businesses is growing at a faster pace than it has in years, and I think that's not too hard to see. Black men and women well, black women particularly, apparently, are leading the charge. They have the fastest growing, they are the fastest growing group of entrepreneurs in the country. So we represent these. These black women are getting it, they're getting it and I think it's a beautiful, tangible way to celebrate Juneteenth.
Speaker 1:As a matter of fact, that's probably the best way to to celebrate Juneteenth by supporting black owned businesses. I mean, you know, in Atlanta you can feel and see that energy everywhere, right From amazing restaurants. You got tech startups, you got independent bookstores, fashion designers like this. There's a whole array of independent black owned business and commerce. Independent Black-owned business and commerce creativity. It's a renaissance here and you know, as you say, you can build your own table on your own terms, and I feel like that is a profound form of freedom in action and really the essence of Juneteenth. So that's like the spirit of, that's the spirit in our culture. For so long, you know, the story of America was told from that one single perspective. But now we living in a golden age of Black storytelling right and people laugh and people kind of make jokes about Tubi, but in reality that's a renaissance in itself of Black storytelling. Right, there's incredible films on there.
Speaker 1:We're in a time where we have great best-selling novels by Black people. You know groundbreaking television shows, and we're doing it all just us, on our own. You know we're able to create, produce, write everything all by Black hands and you know that is just something that is beautiful in itself and it's not just stories that are about struggle. Right, you got joy, love, comedy, adventure. It's all-encompassing, it's a full scope of human emotions and reality, black human emotions, experiences and reality in all of their complexity. And you know, it just feels good to, you know, for us to finally have that spotlight that we have always deserved. And I know, you know, I could bet that our ancestors are definitely proud. But I want to say this isn't, this isn't like something that's just happening all of a sudden. Right, it's not in a vacuum. It's definitely the result of generations of artists, writers and creators. Who is a form of liberation, right, just the fact that we are flourishing like, yeah, yeah, it feels good. Right, it feels really good.
Speaker 1:Future, you know, you know, can be written and is written in a thousand different voices, whereas before, you know, there may have been few because of outside forces that were not allowing us to speak and express the way that we wanted to be seen and expressed. So that brings me to what Juneteenth looks like today. You know we talked about a little bit of the history. You know I gave you the good, the bad, the ugly. So now, in the present right, four years after we have know, finally got the national recognition, the national holiday. You know we're still like a baby holiday, we're in the infancy of the holiday, and I think that now we have to start thinking about how we celebrate and moving forward, what it really means to us and how we're going to continue to carry it if we are to do so. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that I think not only for just, of course, buying black is probably the best way. Just invest in a black-owned business, go do something that's Black-owned or whatever it is. I think that's probably the best way. It would be awesome if Juneteenth every year was that one day that every Black business saw an uptick in their profits. I feel like that would be a dope thing, you know what I mean Like every black business could count on seeing their profits rise. You know, you know, being able to kind of bet on that, I mean, and really that's how a lot of these holidays work. Anyway, when you think about the economic standpoint, that's what Christmas is all about, that's what the 4th of July is. These businesses bank on these certain holidays to see an increase in their income because they know people are going to shop and they're going to buy their products and things like that. So, yeah, let's make Juneteenth be that day.
Speaker 1:Of course, it would be ideal that every day out of the year we we only buy black. You know, but hey, we got to start, we got to start somewhere. So I think that would be a great starting point, just kind of ensuring like we have a basis there, like y'all know what we're doing this year. This is how it goes. Everything that you buy today needs to be black owned. So, yeah, I think I think that would be a great place to start, but also things like gatherings. Of course we got to gather. That's incredibly important.
Speaker 1:Think back to the Jubilee Day. You know, what they did during those Jubilee Days was just kind of getting together, getting a family together did during those Jubilee days was just kind of getting together, getting a family together, you know, socializing, seeing your folks, that maybe you never saw before or maybe you haven't seen in a good while. You know. You know, get the barbecue going. You know there's also something that's going on incredible right now the festivals, right, atlanta has one, you know, that draws people from every background, right, every race, to celebrate together. These festivals are an incredible way to celebrate the holiday and I think that's another key about it too.
Speaker 1:Like Everybody can celebrate Juneteenth, right, I don't think that there needs to be an exclusion there, right, because when you think about it, when you celebrate it, I mean you're celebrating just a piece of American history overall. Like there's no need to fragment things. I mean, black folks been celebrating the 4th of July anyway, like we didn't have a problem, you know what I mean? Uh, celebrating that. So I don't think white folks should have a problem, or any other race. I don't think anybody should have a problem celebrating Juneteenth. I mean, I think it could be a way to show, you know, solidarity. I wouldn't look at it as appropriation. Just make sure that you're being you as you celebrate. Like, don't try to, you know, put on some, you know, some African colors or dashika or whatever.
Speaker 1:The case is Like, just don't go too far with it, right? But you know you could pull up to the cookout if you're invited. You know what I mean. It's all love, so cookout if you're invited. You know what I mean. It's it's all love, so nah, y'all uh, but yeah, so that's that's, that's my take on it.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, juneteenth, I think it's um, like I said, right now with it just kind of still being people I feel like people kind of like don't know how to really celebrate it or maybe they're kind of still, you know, confused or don't see the purpose or the point. But you know, my goal with this episode was just kind of shed a little bit of light on it, you know, give some of the history and then maybe just give a few ways that, if you haven't already figured out how to celebrate it, you know, maybe you could do something you know to celebrate for next year. So just keep that in mind. I do just kind of want to end with, you know, a closing message about how we should stay optimistic. Right, I'm always going to be the optimist in the group, in my family, in my friends, I think that there's always a way to look toward the silver lining, right? Because Juneteenth, at its heart, is a story of hope. It's a story of resilience.
Speaker 1:Think back again to what Opal Lee, what her story teaches us. Think about those first Jubilee days, what that was all about. Think about the men and women and how they felt when they first heard that order. Right, when they first heard that order that they were officially free and it wasn't a myth, it wasn't a rumor. You know, it was actually their dreams coming true and a new path forward in their lives, right? So that's the type of light that I think we need to try to capture in our minds when we think about this day. You know, don't always just think about the darkness that we had to to overcome to get here. Let's just celebrate when we finally did get here, right, and I think that spirit is alive and well. You know, you see it in the success. You see it in, you know, black authorship, everything that this Black Excellence campaign has been running and doing for these past years, and just, you know how we've been successful and soaring and reaching new heights right In the faces of, you know, of children.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying. In our youth, you know, when you see them at the Juneteenth parade, like that's joy, that's love. Right, we got to make sure they learn about their heritage with pride. You know, we got to make sure our families could use this day to just kind of sit down, even sit down with your elders, right, record them. Record you know their oral histories, ask them questions about growing up, preserve those stories of triumph and love, right, so that it's not lost in time, so that this whitewashing and this erasing of our history it doesn't have to happen. Right, we can preserve it on our own. We don't have to try to rely on the school system or anybody else to teach our history. We never should have and we still don't have to today. But we have to remember that we have to take action about it, right?
Speaker 1:So I want to say that the core message of Juneteenth is that delay doesn't mean defeat. That's that core message, right there. Delay doesn't mean defeat. Freedom, once it took root, it has continued to blossom and grow in beautiful and unexpected ways and it will continue to in beautiful and unexpected ways and it will continue to.
Speaker 1:So this day isn't just for Black Americans, any more than the Fourth of July is just for white Americans. I think it's all about. I think it's about all of us understanding and celebrating what it means to be free period. Right, because we're all free. You know, in some sense of the word, we, you know, we got some ways to go in other senses, but at the end of the day, we could celebrate, fire up the grill, you know, tell them old stories, pour the uh, uh, the punch. You know what I mean. And let's just celebrate progress, support the creatives and uplift our communities.
Speaker 1:So, with that being said, y'all, I appreciate you listening to this special edition of Pops and Son Conversations, and you know I'm thinking of a new slogan, my check three time slogan. I've been trying to work on some. This is the latest one, though. I've been trying to work on some. This is the latest one, though. If it matters, if it really matters, make sure you check three times. Y'all tell me how y'all like that one man. You already know where to go PopsandSunConversationscom, and until next time I'm out.
