Father And Son Truths

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SPEAKER_00 1:01

Oh man. Welcome to another episode of Hops and Sun Conversations. And as always, it is your favorite show, Fox Rob Malloy.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

And it is Son here, Javen, aka Mr. Check Three Times.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Mr. Check Three Times.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yes, sir. What's going on, man? How you feeling? Hey, another day, another dollar.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Indeed. And we're back at it. Hey, look, we're continuing the month of March. Uh, of course, it is uh Women's History Month. Uh, we celebrated uh Women's International Day, and uh I'm ready to talk about us again, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

I mean, this is Pops and Sons Conversations.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Pops and Son Conversations, but but you know what though, because we did do separate no episodes uh from Pops and Son Conversations, ladies, we celebrate you not only this month, but every month. So we thank you for everything that you're doing and uh how you are changing lives and making an amazing impact. And I would say this, Jane. I remember we had talked about this before.

Welcome Back And Women’s Month

SPEAKER_00 2:10

There is no other type of nurturing or support than a woman's support. There's nothing like that. That's it. That's it. They know what to say, they know what to do, they know what to create, they know how to uh just make things happen, and you know, I love that. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Hey, I want to trade it for the world.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Not at all.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

I mean, just think about all the women.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Shout out to all the ladies. I mean, just think about it as a compliment, you know. But hey, bro, that's a nice outfit, man. Them shoes is cool, bro. Right? And it's like cool, but then a lady, hey, handsome, oh you look amazing, man. Look, my my confidence level done bumped up.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

I was about to say, beam beaming for the rest of the day. You get a compliment like that in the morning, you a you giving out extra tips. You you you you know what I'm saying? You you yeah, you're feeling good. You feeling good off that, and women have that power, they have it, you know. So women use that power for good, okay? That's all I'm saying. Use it for good.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

That's real, that's 100%. But look, we have a pretty large audience of women and men, and what I've learned, Jay, is um, there's a lot of women out here that are raising sons. And I don't want to go back and forth about can a woman raise a son and and and is a man a better fit. You know, right now, when you think about it, man, it's about the best support system for that child, right? So you you want to create give him as many opportunities to succeed, as many tools and resources so that he can, you know, walk in his purpose. And so that's really what it's about. Um, and obviously both parents, you know, can take charge of that, but it should not be a competition. And so we get again, we get a lot of DMs, man, about relationships between father and sons, mother and sons, and uh co-parenting and and and having a son. And um, I want to talk a little bit about, or maybe a lot of bit about the relationship between fathers and sons, because I want to be able to give our uh

Why Women’s Support Hits Different

SPEAKER_00 4:28

our female audience, you know, a bird's eye view of the type of things that we talk about, the type of things that we struggle with, the type of challenges that we have, the type of potential impact, and the you know, the success of a father and son having a relationship and why it's so important. And I'll say this before we we dig in, and I'll let you put some questions together or some topics together, but you know, um I'm 50, I'll be 51 this year in October, and I've uh experienced you know a lot of interaction with women, and not even necessarily you know, platonic, you know, some relational, but just the interaction of with women. And I've met a lot of women with sons, and it it seems like as a general consensus, that a single mother raising a son can be challenging once he gets a certain age, and I think we can all kind of guess what that age range is, but let's just say then with with he hits puberty or you know he becomes closer to a uh an adolescent uh male, and you know, he's he's kind of walking into his own with being a young man, so everybody kind of knows what that age group is, yeah. And then things start becoming a little bit more challenging because he gets taller, he has growth spurts, you know, the voice gets deeper, he has more interaction with uh uh women now, or you know, girls now. And uh for some Jay, and I'm be I'm gonna be candid with you. Sometimes that young man is deemed the man of the house at an early age. Yeah, eight years old, 12 years old, and even sometimes when he's a a child, sometimes the woman woman will be like, Well, this is my little man, this is my man, that's why I'm putting him in designer clothes and getting him designer shoes. Okay, and so not knowing what type of pressure is is uh happening psychologically for this man. So he's supposed to be a protector at 12, he's supposed to be a protector at 15 years old, like he still wants to be a boy, he still wants to ride bikes, he still wants to play video games, but now he got to watch his he got to watch his little uh eight-year-old sister. He can't go out and hang out with his with the homies.

When A Son Becomes Man Of House

SPEAKER_01 6:55

He's given responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

He he has these type of responsibilities, and and what happens ultimately, Jay, is he never gets a chance to really enjoy his his uh his boyhood, his young manhood. So he has all these responsibilities, and by the time he hits 20s, maybe 30s, he has a child, he has a family, has to take care of a wife, uh, he has to uh work hard, right? He has to develop a career before he can even enjoy and see what life is about. And you wonder why he's 30, he's 40, he's 50, 60 years old, and you call him immature. Right. The man, the young, the uh seasoned man wants to become a young man, he wants to live out his young manhood. Not because he's immature, it's because he has experiences that he should have been able to experience. Yeah. So uh deep as that may be or or uh sound, we're gonna we're gonna dig in, Jay. And I want to talk about the importance of you know just the relationship of uh a father um and his son exclusively. So with that being said, I mean, well, we have to, I guess, the foundation, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah, foundation, for sure. Well, but uh before we do that, though, I just want to draw one quick contrast because I I like everything you said, especially the psychological things on the on the young boy, right? So think about this. You talked about, you know, uh being a young man, you're giving all these responsibilities, you're the man of the house, you you have to grow up. And when you're in that position as a young man, you're you it's embedded in you. You're thinking, like, I got to support my mom, I gotta make sure my mama is straight, almost the same way that you it's it's almost like you would expect, you know, like a husband to do with his wife, or or or you know what I'm saying? It's almost like you assume this role of a partner for your mother. Like I you you you hear in the rap songs all the time, like I, you know, I I got my mom out of the hood, I bought her a house, this, that, and the third. Young men are are, and it's like you said, it's psychological. They're they're given

The Hidden Partner Role Burden

SPEAKER_01 9:16

this responsibility and this burden to take care of their mother in in a different way that that you don't um single mothers. I'm I'm speaking specifically because that's what we're talking about. So it's a different, it's a different burden. And then you look, you know, on the other side, of course, there's always gonna be a difference, but you would not expect, you know, your your daughter to to do any of these type of things, or or you know, when it comes to like there's there's just a a stark contrast in a like a single mother and her son, and the expectations of that son. Wow. And it's and it's so crazy because you know, I'm only thinking about this when you were talking about it, but it it really is like you you put that responsibility and then you the young man grows up thinking that he's you know, like you, you're not her her man, her partner, her husband, or any of these, like you, you're the child, like you're you know what I'm saying? You're yeah you so I just thought about that real quick.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

But um that's tough though, Jay. How you gonna do we gotta move forward and you just dropped that gym. So so let's explore that, and and we we obviously we may have to reconvene uh with a put a part two to finish everything that we want to cover. But there was a couple two things that I do want to expound on. Um and number one, possibly that type of motivation is is what actually got the the the legacy fulfilled because that father wasn't there, and because the desire and determination and and the refocus or focus of that son, and because you know that gap that was there, maybe that uh you know catapulted him to a different mentality. Maybe he maybe he he did things or pursued things that he typically wouldn't. Uh maybe because he didn't necessarily have to follow in a in a certain footstep or expectation in a certain industry or something, that he did some things outside the box that got them out to hood. Maybe he wasn't gonna be that elite athlete or uh uh or scholar um or you know entrepreneur mindset unless there was a struggle to to fight. Right. So I I get that. I mean, uh so that so I actually I thought that's where you were to you were gonna go for the contrast, but when you drop the the less expectation of of maybe that daughter, that alone is powerful because now you start thinking about the mindset and expectation from uh young child to adolescent to adult, and you know, what their role would be as you know as they navigate to and through adulthood.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

That's it's a lot different. That's like just think about so just think about say you got a single mother and she has a son and a daughter. Like who do you think, like who do you and and this is just hypothetical, but who do you think more pressure is on the the son or the daughter as far as wow, you know, trying to maybe they aren't in the best conditions, mama's struggling. Like, who do you think out of that situation has the most pressure? Obviously, mom has pressure because she's struggling, but son is thinking, like, man, I gotta get my mama right, I gotta get my sister right, I gotta figure something out.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

That's doing he's doing all kind of unorthodox activity. Exactly. The daughter is not gonna go in the streets and hustle. Let's let's keep it 1,000 because that's what we do. She is not gonna be expected to go in there and hustle and do whatever it takes on the street, whether it be uh, I'm not gonna say illegal, I'm just gonna say that you know, unorthodox, right? Um, she's not gonna be the one asked to or or feel like she needs to drop out of school. You know, when you think about the I don't know the statistics, maybe we can get that's a good point, Pops.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

That's a great point.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

I don't know the statistics, right? Yeah, but who's gonna drop out of school?

Son Vs Daughter Expectations

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Any no young if there's a young man or a boy in the house and a girl in the house, she is not going to drop out of school, and she's not gonna feel like she needs to drop out of school and go get a job or go in the streets or go hustle or whatever the case is, it's just not happening, and it's amazing when you think about that. And when when you talk about relationships now, when you when you think about the the relationships with women and their expectations, you want him to have all these things, they want him to be educated, they want him to have money, they want him to be uh a consistent and disciplined. You don't know this young man's childhood. Why do you think he why do you think he either doesn't have a uh a GED or just has a GD and not uh a college degree or master's? You don't know what this man was doing when he was 11 years old, and and and mama said that the lights are gonna be turned off, so let's go to the Doll store and get some candles.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Right. And then to even take it a step further, just the the nature and the narrative around us men and and how we express ourselves and how we you know reveal or divulge our past or whatever it is, like yeah, are we gonna be uh um inclined to share this type of information in our relationship? Because who's gonna right, like who do you really care? Like, do you what you're seeing is what's going on what I got going on right now. You don't care what I had to do to get to this point, you know, the struggles I had and my my you know, my sister crying lights up, all these different things, which like you mentioned, psychological effects. Like, let's let's not let's not forget about how this young man's psyche is. Like he might not even care about nothing.

How Childhood Pressure Shapes Men

SPEAKER_01 16:58

That's right. He's happy to be here. Exactly. And that's also a reason why he may, you know, I might I mean this might bleed into how he you know interacts with certain women because of maybe how they see him. Like maybe you only see me as this one way, and I mean, you know, it it gets deep, but you know it does.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

It's hard, it's hard, man. It's hard not to be passionate um about it. It's uh it's it's hard not to have these type of conversations because it's the reality of things, it's the reality of things, and when you have a platform to share these things, we have to be able to get it out because it's not gonna be a dialogue with someone because there's gonna be questions, right? There's gonna be debates, there's gonna be comparisons, there's gonna be contrasts to our story, which has nothing to do with our story, right? Right, like I don't I don't want you to tell me the options that I had when you wasn't around when I was 14. Don't don't talk about the options and things I could have done differently at 25 when you was nowhere around, and your situation was completely different, and so now look, we done branched off into something completely different, right? But I think it's so important because think about this, think about this. So, if there is a household of uh uh a son and a daughter and a a single parent, and we're not even gonna say mother or father, let's just say a single parent. Who is going to be protected? Who is the one that's gonna have to take the most sacrifice? Who is the one that is we're going to make sure that this right this one has everything that they need so they don't have to depend on anyone because the other one can fend for themselves. You're not gonna have a uh a young woman fend for herself in any aspect or situation you put her in.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yo, Pops, you you you use this analogy all the time, and it's it's always so relevant. That same situation, even he might be 13, 14, everybody in the bed sleep, mom asleep, sister sleep, it's something going on. It's it's a it's a knot, you know, in in the middle of the night. Some you you hear something, who's going out?

unknown 19:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

That son, he he he he may be, he may be the youngest one. Right. He may have a big sister. He's still going to have the responsibility of being a man of the house, figuring out and protecting, even at that young age. Like it's it's a it's a different type of it's a different type of responsibility, man.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Man, that's that's powerful. And and really, we're saying this because we want to give a POV. We want to give a perspective of uh obviously two men, but also two fathers as well. And so this is just what it is. Like we wouldn't, and the thing about it, I don't necessarily know if we would have it any other way.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

I know I wouldn't. I I wouldn't, I wouldn't change it.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

But but what I but the point is is to give a better understanding because and I remember talking to these young ladies at the the pre-party um a couple of weeks ago at another event, and I was just talking to them, and I was like, what do you feel like men aren't doing? And before you before you speak, I want you to think about your sons, I want you to think about your brothers, I want you to think about the your your male counterparts first before you start thinking about the guys that you dated, because you don't know the guys that you've dated like you know your brother or your son or your father or your homeboy. And and I believe that many women will talk about their current experience versus what they actually know, real experiences, right? So we talk about real experiences, that's your sons, that's that's your brothers, that's that's your uncles, that's your dad. What was their behavior? Because if you think about it, then it's familiar behavior which you may be attracted to. You got all good dudes around you, hardworking men, men that are did

Familiarity And Risk In Dating

SPEAKER_00 21:35

uh are in relationships and believe in protected, providing, respecting, reassuring their woman, you know, uh uh great relationships with the the matriarchs in the family. What are you expected to be attracted to if that's what you know?

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Good question. Well, I want to hear the answer.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Now, what we are familiar with is sometimes women have been exposed to that all their life, but they want to date the opposite. They they're curious. Well, let me try somebody who isn't educated, somebody who doesn't have a stable income, someone who is uh uh not all about the the law-abiding citizen, maybe somebody a little bit edgy. Let me see what that's like. Baby girl, that's on you to do that. That's you don't even know that, right? You don't even know that behavior, and you're talking about well, I just wanted to meet somebody who lives on the edge. Look, you done got caught up now. You got two kids by him, he still don't want to marry you, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Curiosity, curiosity killed the cat. That's what they said, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Curiosity has been killing the cat in almost all nine lives.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

They got two lives left, man. They seven down, man. Seven down. Look, man, we we we uh we didn't even get into it. I know.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Listen, possibly is way off of time. But but you know what?

SPEAKER_00 23:15

That's the real these are pops and song conversations that that you uh that you guys wouldn't necessarily have access to because you wouldn't be uh at the cigar bar or you wouldn't be at dinner, you wouldn't be at breakfast, or whatever the case is, you wouldn't have any uh access to that. So that's why I love uh that we have this platform that we can share. Um and I and I think that more ladies should share uh the podcast because a lot of uh of the men they uh they're familiar with the con you know the conversation. Um they may just not be having it and they want to have it. So it's icebreakers, it's topics that are typically taboo. But I think that uh honestly, Jay, I think that a lot more ladies that have sons, parents, more parents to have sons, make sure they have access to. Pops and son conversations. If you're not doing it and you're not having conversations with your sons, that's on you.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Yeah. You're working backwards. It's a it's a detriment.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

It's a detriment, man. You're hustling for my boy said.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Yeah.

Share The Podcast And Join Live

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Hey, hey, look, so we'll we'll reconvene. You know, I think we'll reconvene and we'll give you guys a little bit more um conversation about you know father and son uh conversations, uh grandfather and son conversations. And you know, these these are conversations that you know the Jay and I, we have, you know, eating breakfast, eating dinner, or just kind of hanging out or in the car or whatever. And you know, a lot of these conversations don't necessarily verbatim make it to the podcast, but it does spark the necessary conversations that we want to make sure that we give y'all.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Yeah, so you gotta stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

You gotta wait. So look, um, we appreciate you guys. Anytime you have uh different topics and and subjects you want us to do, just go ahead and hit us on all our social media platforms, pops and conversations for sure, and uh and we're gonna get to it. Um, and we're also uh working on um Jay, we gotta work on having a specific live date. So maybe they can give us some suggestions on our platforms.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah, yeah, we yeah, we gotta do that. We we we definitely gotta do that, go live because I want to hear from you just just with this whole conversation that we had. I want to get, you know, I don't want to feel like I'm alienating, you know, single mothers or whatever the case is. Like I want to hear like the feedback. I want to know your TV as well. Because I'm sure, you know, it's it's some mamas out there that'll be like, oh no, I'm gonna go check, I'm gonna go check the door if I hear loud knock. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm sure there's some out there, but yeah, I you know, I just want to get it's it's good to be well-rounded, get all perspectives.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Yeah, that's what it's about. Objectively, man. Objectively, exactly. So we're good with that. So look, guys, we'll see you guys next episode of Pops and Sun Conversations. It's your favorite Sylve Fox, Rob Malloy.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Javan, aka Check Three Times, checking out. We gone. Peace.