Men's Mental Health Shapes How We Love

A lot of people say men need to “open up,” but almost nobody talks about what it costs when your openness gets misunderstood, weaponized, or repeated. We start with a simple vibe check and then get straight into men’s mental health, especially from a Black male perspective, and how coping skills can look like coldness in a relationship when they’re really about protecting peace.

We dig into the hard relationship stuff: why “I don’t want to talk right now” can trigger offense, how partners create stories when they don’t know the root cause, and why communication isn’t the real issue when trust is missing. We also talk about reciprocity, that moment when you show up as the listener and realize you don’t get the same safe space back. Then we answer a listener question head-on: do men talk, and do men go to therapy? We share what “talking” can mean in real life, from barbershop and locker-room check-ins to professional counseling, plus why therapy can feel like a leap when you’re not sure you’ll be understood.

The conversation turns toward fatherhood and the pressure that comes with being a provider, protector, and example even when you’re running on fumes. We talk about breaking cycles, finding healthy outlets, and why carrying stress alone isn’t a badge of honor. If any of this hits home, subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review telling us what helps you build trust and talk for real.

You can advertise with PNS today

Transcript

Welcome And Mushroom Coffee Talk

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome back to another episode of Pops and Son Conversations. It is your favorite soil fox, Rob Malloy. And his son here, aka check three times. And we are in the Billy. That's right. We in the Billy. Look, man, have my coffee. So so look, Jay, I got this mushroom coffee now. How you like that? Yeah, man. It's uh it tastes funny. I ain't even gonna I ain't even gonna cap. Uh it tastes funny, but it has all these uh nutritional values when you know historically coffee just you know decaf a calf, you know, and then you go about your business. But this uh doesn't have any caffeine. Um, and uh, you know, they're not a sponsor yet, so I can't even really give the name out, but uh I will reach out to them and see if they want to sponsor an episode or whatnot. Um, but yeah, it's it's it's uh it's pretty good. You still gotta put your uh you know, your cream in there. Um I don't you don't have to put any sugar in there, but the cream for sure. You gotta get into that so uh just a little sub. Um I'm trying because I'm I'm not a coffee drinker or tea drinker like that. I I like my OJ and uh and my water, but um mushrooms.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

You can never go wrong with OJ.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yeah, man. OJ is it? Come on, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Always gonna be it.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Yes, uh, so so alright, y'all. Yeah, we're having a whole conversation here with y'all on the side. So let's get let's get our folks involved. Uh you know, welcome to another episode. And as you know, we um and as promised, we're gonna continue the conversation about mental health, uh, especially uh in men. So we're still talking about our mental health, ladies. So just you know, sit down, cross your legs. You probably got a mimosa or something like that, uh, or uh a sangria, right? That ain't that little pretty drinks they like to have.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Oh, yeah, yeah, they good though. I like the mimosas. The bottomless mimosa is is is where it's at.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yo, we gotta get you, we gotta get you booked for uh some of that, man. Champagne and OJ, man. Oh, yeah. Uh making it happen. But but uh okay, so let's do this. You know, last time we were talking about, you know, just kind of uh the plight of the man uh in mental health, uh and obviously some mental you know illnesses, and we'll tackle those things, but uh I think it was important to give the origin

Why Men's Mental Health Starts Early

SPEAKER_01 2:40

in what we've dealt with. Um, because you know what, sometimes they women don't realize that this is a part of their son's plight. They thinking that they're thinking that okay, you get 30 years old, 40, 50 years old, and now you got all these issues. What's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Well, ma'am, it started as a young boy. Remember, Tevin Campbell was like when I was a young boy. That's where it started. That's where that's exactly where it started. Yeah. So so what so what direction you want to go? And I just want to just kind of jump in, man, because I know we have a lot to cover in a short amount of time.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Yeah, I mean, yeah, let's do it. I want to go ahead and just get right into the relationships. Relationships and mental health. Oh man, you know, that's that's that's deep. And this is why it's deep, because like you mentioned, you know, hey, everybody has this trauma of the childhood trauma, whatever the case is, but we gotta acknowledge that it's unique, you know, from a male perspective.

unknown 3:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

So anytime you have that that those unresolved mental health issues, it's gonna affect your relationship. I kind of mentioned a little bit um last episode where I talked about, you know, kind of like the opening up and all that different type of stuff. But uh that kind of leads into the emotional availability that, you know, women like to talk about so much, right? Shutting people out. Right. But why is that going on? Right? So there's I think there's different routes to it. Um, I definitely think that uh kind of like how I mentioned the last one, like you get to a point where I think guys really look at things from a very logical standpoint, and you kind

Relationships And Emotional Shutdown

SPEAKER_00 4:28

of weigh, you wager, and you know what I'm saying, you kind of choose your battles on what you want to what you want to tolerate, what you want to deal with. Um, because believe it or not, at the same time, I think, you know, men, we have these mental health issues. We also have mechanisms to protect our mental health. And I think a lot of times when we use those mechanisms in a relationship, it can look like uh emotional unavailability, or it can look like shutting people out, but really it's protecting our peace and protecting our mental health. What did you think about that, Pop? Am I fine?

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Hey, well, no, you cooking over here. I was about to get you uh some more grease. But no, you you you cooking, you cooking because um and let's just be real. Uh most women operate in in uh in an emotional standpoint, right? So so they're taking offense of that that you're going through something and they automatically think that it they're the cause, and then they automatically think that you can't communicate to them to say that uh they're the cause. So now it's trust and possibly uh you know insecurities when it has doesn't have, I'm not gonna say it doesn't have anything to do with them because if they're there for you and they want to support you, then that's awesome. But they're not the root cause. And so the goal is to find what the root cause is versus uh worrying about being offended that you're actually going through something, you know, because when you think about it, a lot of times if a woman is going through something, you know, she may not want to talk about it. Hey, I don't want to talk about it right now, or now is not the right time, or I'll be okay. So, but if a man does it, it's automatic offensive. Like, look, I don't want to talk about it. Okay, well, is it me? And then they start creating narratives for what it could be, so it's a domino effect, man. So that this is crazy right now. Uh, because we just got started, but when you start talking, and it's I almost feel like that should have been towards the end, but we're here now. But but relationships and mental health, first you have to understand that you know your partner is going through something, and it's not something that you can particularly fix, right? Sometimes just being supportive, uh, sometimes just being patient, because I don't think I think men are getting better at communicating, but the that doesn't mean that they're getting better at trusting people because your your experience is your experience, it's not about communicating, because if you want somebody to know what's going on, you can do that, but can you trust them with the information that you're about to give them? Valent right and then you got to think about it. If you guys even tight like that, then he he's already experienced you talking about somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Oh man, hey, what a great point.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

You've already said some things, whether it be your ex, whether it be your mama and them, whatever the case is. So it's like who am I for you to you know have this allegiance to because I don't know. You you get mad at me one day that I may be the topic of uh of discussion, right? Uh let alone if we not even like that anymore, the floodgates of information. Jay.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yo, yeah, it's it's it's deep, you know, and and that's that just goes back to that, you know, there's there's just differences, man, because you know, we don't as as men, I don't think we really deal with, you know, we we can take all that type of stuff in. Like we'll take the secrets in, we'll take the all the trauma, like whatever you want to trauma dump, all that good stuff. Like we're cool with that, and

Trust, Privacy, And Being Heard

SPEAKER_00 8:42

we don't um, you know, we'll we'll be that listening. We may even give advice, but I feel like we have a better understanding of all right, this person just wants to talk and they just need somebody to listen. Not judge, not not try to control or give advice, but just do that and let them vent. I don't think we get, I don't think the reciproc uh reciprocity is there a lot of time for men, um, you know, in relationships, particularly because that's what we're talking about. So I think that's another reason why, you know, as fellas are kind of just a lot less inclined, man, because even even though we're able to see the value and being a person like that in the relationship, it hurts and it it you know it it kind of it makes you feel a little bit devalued when you don't get that same honor to be able to do that. And a lot of times you might not want to do it because like we said earlier, you don't, you know what I'm saying? We cool, we don't have to, but even if I wanted to, it's like I don't even want to go that route because I might try to tell you something now. You know what I'm saying? You you trying to coach me and and tell me like nah, I'm I'm I'm good, you know what I mean? I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

That's so powerful because uh I don't I don't feel that men need the validation as much as women do, you know. Sometimes we we just understand it is what it is. That's yeah, that's what we have to deal with being a man. It's like you can't never want to be a protector and provider, we can't take them days off, right? You can't be like, you know what, today, man, I'm gonna just let whatever happened to my family, whatever goes down, that's cool. Catch me on Wednesday, but right now I need uh I need a a couple days off. We can't do that. But uh, we do have a message from uh you know one of our listeners, and and Jay, they wanted to know do men actually talk? And um do men actually go to therapy? And I want to take a pause and kind of address those because it's real quick and easy. But um, from your perspective, did do you feel like, you know, us men, do you feel like we talk? And then number two, do you feel like uh men actually go to therapy?

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Um no, I don't. I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna give a definite no. Yeah, I think that the rate is a lot lower, particularly for black men than it should be. Um therapy, talking. I mean, how are we defining talking? What do you mean by talk? Yeah, let's get a working definition. Like, are you just saying, like, oh, am I talking to the homies about whatever, whatever? Am I talking to myself? Am I working it out? Like, when you say talk, yeah, you know, it it could be a lot of different things. But I don't think that, just

Do Men Talk And Go To Therapy

SPEAKER_00 11:45

just to be real, I don't, I don't think that that men talk enough. And I don't think that therapy is where it should be in the community. I've you know, I freely admit that I've never been to therapy before. I'm not against it. Right. I just it's not one of those things that I'm like, oh, I need to go Russian, you know what I'm saying? Go, oh, I need to go to therapy. Like it's it's kind of like, you know, I don't think about it until it gets until it gets brought up. I try to kind of do my own little mental, you know, health exercises and whatnot. I'm not against therapy, but yeah, no, I don't, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Okay. Yeah, um, and I think that it's important that folks do know that because for some uh the they do feel the exact same way that you do. Now, obviously, me being almost twice your age, um, I feel like uh men, us men, we do we do talk. Uh, I feel like we just don't have to publicize uh our conversations. You know, we have the locker room talk, we have the barbershop talk. Uh, you know, when we just kind of out and about, you know, one of the fellas may just, hey, man, you know what, man, I'm just kind of struggling with my relationship, or I'm just, oh, yeah. I feel like uh, you know, my belly getting too big and stuff like that. But but we're not the type to where, you know, we're pulling out the phones and we need to uh take pictures and say, hey, you know, great therapy session at the sports bar and grill, you know. Um, but I think women need to know that we do have these conversations. Do we have them enough? Absolutely not. Because a lot of us men, we do still suffer in silence. Who wants to talk about they're struggling in the relationship? Who wants to talk about they're dealing with ED or they feel like they're getting too fat and uh, you know, the hair thinning and they got a little bald, you know. So I think when we talk about the totality of it, um, we don't talk enough. Um, God forbid we have a podcast, right? And start sharing our opinions. Man, would it be attacked? Um and then in addition to that, um, I think therapy is extremely important um because historically we haven't really learned how to navigate effectively. A lot of things get swept under the rug. A lot of times we just keep moving on and moving on because it seems to be easier and to uh just press and bury uh what we have on, but at what we have going on. But at some point, there's gonna be either an explosion or an implosion. Implosion, yep. Right? So it's gonna be either one because you know, pressure busts pipes, you know, just and that's just what it is. So I think when it comes to therapy, uh when it comes to some type of counseling, um, it's it's such a slippery slope because you want to be able to trust the therapist, right? But but therapists need therapy too, right? Right? So it's almost like, you know, do they truly understand? Um, are they just trying to get you know, get paid, um, that type of thing. So I think that group sessions or group therapy, which we're doing a lot more uh amongst men, and and we've you know, and they've shown that in different things going on on social media where you see the group of men talking, and uh, you know, but even with that, when you start talking about views and stuff, now you're showing men arguing and and going back and forth, which kind of for me defeats the purpose because now it's entertainment, right? Versus uh conflict resolution and uh you know, really just kind of showing the the inner work that needs to be done and those conversations that need to be had. So uh I think at some point uh we have some really,

Therapy Doubts And Group Healing

SPEAKER_01 15:36

really great therapists. Uh, we have a great grief counselor, uh, a couple of them. Um, and uh we're gonna grab him for sure. And on an episode, uh one of one of my favorite um men of color um group therapists, um Dr. Curtis. Is it D D Jasper? Because I think he won that middle initial, right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He likes hey, Curtis D. So uh yeah, so big shout out to Dr. Curtis D. Jasper. Uh, we'll definitely be having him on one of the episodes. But he he just talks about uh grief and that being the kind of the first line uh that needs to be addressed, because you know, that's just something that we carry and we don't deal with. And and uh um I think that's really really important. But but moving on, because we still have a couple things that we we want to make sure that we address. Um, you know, Jay, let's let's just kind of dig in with the fatherhood aspect of it, because we have a big responsibility, right? Because we we have to have not only have this particular image, but regardless of what we have to go on, what we have going on, we have to push through that.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Right. Yeah, it's it's you know it's not a it's it's not a burden. I don't want to I don't want to call it that, but you know, it's it's definitely a a very heavy weight to carry. Um, you know, you you open yourself up to so much, especially with there already being a stigma amongst black men and and and how you know we father or you know, lack thereof, or whatever people want to say. You know, so you already fighting that, just just having a kid, and then, you know, all the issues and the and the mental health things, everything that we just mentioned, you have to also now think about your son and you know how he's gonna deal

Fatherhood Pressure And Breaking Cycles

SPEAKER_00 17:44

with these things and you know how you can relate to him. And because, you know, truth be told, I don't think that, you know, mom is really gonna have the best um you know options for him to be able to deal with those things for obvious reasons, you know, that we kind of already talked about, just with, you know, the gender differences and things like that. So you kind of have to, while you already dealing with your own, you know, your own mental health and and whether you got anxiety or your paranoid or whatever it is that you got going on, you know what I'm saying? You also have to, you know, hope that some of those things don't transfer down to your seed, but then also be prepared and prepare yourself to be that um, you know, be that uh uh that support, you know, for for your son when he does kind of hit those type of roadblocks. Maybe he's you know, self-esteem and where it needs to be, or confidence, or you know, just kind of feeling maybe lost or or worried about, you know, all these different things that, you know, we as men face, you know, as we age and kind of kind of understand our position and the role in society and the world overall, you know, it's a lot, it's it's immense pressure. It's immense pressure. So um yeah, definitely when it when it comes to that, the stress that we don't talk about and trying to break those cycles. Um yeah, it's it's it's it's tough pops. And I know, I know you know, like we you know, we we kind of you know have our have our conversations and we you know we still you know still kind of work through things. And I and I won't also just want to mention like you know, from a son perspective, um you know, I want to say, you know, to the sons out there, um I think that we can um how can I say this? I think maybe I should just be personal right now and just put it on me because I don't want to overgeneralize, but I but but I I know somebody else probably out there probably feels the same way. I think that it's okay to um just kind of be let some of that burden go or or or try to let some of that stress um be released. Like I think that a lot of times we try to hold on to it just for whatever reason. Like, you know, it it might be just that um you know, you feel like you have to own it. I think that, you know, um, you know, to the sons out there, to the fathers, you gotta understand that you don't have to own that stress. That's true. You don't have to live in that stress. It's okay to whatever. I ain't you know, I ain't talking about extracurriculars and drugs and all that type of stuff, but whatever your outlet is, um, whatever your support system is that you have, um, understand that you know you can lean on them and utilize it, man. Right. Because we don't have a lot of tools to deal with it. So the few tools that us men have to deal with this stress and this pressure and all this stuff, man, I think that you do yourself a disservice, not trying to use them. Um that's what I got to say on the fatherhood stuff.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

That's that's good. It it seems I guess we're gonna have to do another round, man. Um, yeah, because uh there's still so much more to talk about, but just to uh kind of in conclusion of what you said was so powerful of you know, uh breaking the cycle of the emotional absence, you know, and and and just uh being a man and and just doing what we have to do, and you know, it's all about family. Man, let's come on now. Like we already know that the numbers that the that the women are outliving the men, right? Right? But when you think about why, think about how long a man has been obligated to, you know, just kind of make things happen and take the burden on their shoulders and just keep pushing, you know, uh, and not to not to be sexist or anything like that, but there it's a different responsibility between a man and a woman. Now I know that there's some dysfunctional house. Households with a with a woman that's taking care of stuff and she's paying the bills. That ain't my fault. Y'all work that out. But when it comes down to a more traditional um

Family Sacrifice And Final Takeaway

SPEAKER_01 22:10

household, you know, that man does take on a lot. He takes on a lot, uh, knowing that his guidance needs to be from God, so he needs to be aligned. And then at the same time, he wants to see his family happy. And I'm gonna end it with this, and people may not agree, and uh it may be uh you know something, but um a man will sacrifice his happiness for his family, and some women, not all women, will sacrifice their family for their happiness. So I'm gonna let y'all sit on that one, right? Yeah, and and and we'll uh see you guys next episode. We're still rocking with uh May, of course, being a mental health awareness month. Uh, and you have the two uh best representatives. You have Pops and Son, and we have a platform called Pops and Sun Conversations, and I am Hop, your favorite soil fox Rob Malloy. They call me Mr. Check three times. I'm son, baby. There it is, and we will see you guys next episode. We out, peace.